After rescheduling the hearing that was supposed to happen yesterday, the January 6th Select Committee began the third day of its hearings on June 16, 2022.
Also, see our summaries of the previous hearings:
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Day 3 of the hearings revolved around Trump's pressure on Vice President Pence to throw out legal electoral votes, and John Eastman's role in organizing that plot. Trump, and even John Eastman himself, were aware that the plan had no legal standing, but they moved forward with it anyway. Trump's focus on Pence led to Pence's life being at stake, and Trump continued to tweet threats to Pence even after Trump was aware of the violence engulfing the Capitol.
Video of the hearing can be found here. Time stamps are reported in Eastern Time.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?520944-1/president-trumps-campaign-influence-vice-president-pence
1:02 PM - Committee Chairman Bennie Thompson introduces the day's topic.
1:05 PM - Committee Vice Chair Liz Cheney gives an overview of the previous hearing and today's hearing.
1:06 PM - Video of Vice President Pence giving a speech to the Federalist Society, on February 4, 2022, saying he had "no right to overturn the election".
1:07 PM - Testimony from Marc Short (Pence's Chief of Staff), saying that Pence had repeatedly told Trump that he did not have the power to overturn the election.
1:08 PM - Testimony from Greg Jacob (the Vice President's general counsel). Jacob testifies that on January 4, 2021, John Eastman had told Trump that his plan would violate the Electoral Count Act, and hence be illegal.
1:09 PM - Testimony from Greg Jacob that Mike Pence said following the law on January 6th would be the most important thing he's ever done.
1:10 PM - Committee member Pete Aguilar gives an opening statement summarizing the day's topic.
1:12 PM - Video of Trump at his January 6th rally targeting Mike Pence. Video of Insurrectionists saying they are going to drag politicians through the streets if Pence fails to follow through. Video of other Insurrectionists chanting "Hang Mike Pence".
1:14 PM - Bennie Thompson introduces the day's witnesses. Retired Judge J. Michael Luttig (who was appointed by George H. W. Bush to the US Court of Appeals), who provided advice to Pence. As well as Greg Jacob, who extensively researched the Electoral Count Act and was with Pence during January 6th. Both men gave legal advice to Pence, making clear the plot to overthrow the election was illegal.
1:18 PM - Live testimony from Greg Jacob explaining that Pence had become familiar with the various schemes planned for him by December 7, 2020. Pence asked Jacob for an overview of the rules regarding the process of counting electoral votes. Jacob says Pence's first instinct was that the Constitution could not allow the Vice President to unilaterally determine the President. Jacob concluded that it was indeed Unconstitutional for the Vice President to unilaterally determine the outcome of the election.
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1:21 PM - Cheney begins asking questions to retired Judge Michael Luttig. She notes that Luttig released a statement to the Committee earlier today, which she encouraged everyone to read.
The 12-page statement can be read below:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/16/politics/read-luttig-statement/index.html
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22061497/jml-final.pdf
Here are some important passages from this document. Luttig's testimony today was quite anxiety-ridden and difficult to follow, but his written statement is very articulate.
"America was at war on that fateful day, but not against a foreign power. She was at war against herself. We Americans were at war with each other -- over our democracy.
January 6 was but the next, foreseeable battle in a war that had been raging in America for years, though that day was the most consequential battle of that war even to date. In fact, January 6 was a separate war unto itself, a war for America’s democracy, a war irresponsibly instigated and prosecuted by the former president, his political party allies, and his supporters. Both wars are raging to this day.
A peaceful end to these wars is desperately needed. The war for our democracy could lead to the peaceful end to the war for America’s cultural heart and soul. But if a peaceful end to the war for America’s democracy is not achievable, there is little chance for a peaceful end to that war.
[...]
These senseless wars are of our own making, and they are now being waged throughout the land, in our city centers and town squares, in our streets and in our schools, where we work and where we play, in our houses of worship -- even within our own families. These wars were conceived and instigated from our Nation’s Capital by our own political leaders collectively and they have been cynically prosecuted by them to fever pitch, now to the point that they have recklessly put America herself at stake.
America is now the stake in these unholy wars.
Serious thinkers about the American experiment who are not given to apocalyptic prophesying question whether America is on the verge of a literal civil war. But is even this figurative civil war to be our generation’s legacy to posterity?
[...]
The war on democracy instigated by the former president and his political party allies on January 6 was the natural and foreseeable culmination of the war for America. It was the final fateful day for the execution of a well-developed plan by the former president to overturn the 2020 presidential election at any cost, so that he could cling to power that the American People had decided to confer upon his successor, the next president of the United States instead. Knowing full well that he had lost the 2020 presidential election, the former president and his allies and supporters falsely claimed and proclaimed to the nation that he had won the election, and then he and they set about to overturn the election that he and they knew the former president had lost.
[...]
Soon thereafter, the rioters stormed the Capitol itself, breaching, occupying, and ransacking the temple of our democracy for seemingly endless wrenching hours -- at the precise democratic moment when the Congress of the United States convened in Joint Session to begin the constitutional counting of the votes for the presidency of the United States.
[...]
Over a year and a half later, in continued defiance of our democracy, both the former president and his political party allies still maintain that the 2020 presidential election was “stolen” from him, despite all evidence -- all evidence now -- that that is simply false. All the while, this false and reckless insistence that the former president won the 2020 presidential election has laid waste to Americans’ confidence in their national elections.
[...]
... And almost two years thence, one of America’s two political parties cannot even agree whether that day was good or bad, right or wrong. Worse, it cannot agree over whether January 6 was needed, or not. Needed or not. Pause for a moment and reflect on that. The former president and his party cannot decide whether the revolt at the United States Capitol to disrupt and prevent the constitutional counting of the votes for the presidency was needed, and therefore whether another revolt might be needed at a future date to accomplish that which the previous revolt failed to accomplish.
If one of our national political parties -- one of the two political guardians of our democracy -- cannot agree even as to whether the violent riot and occupation of the United States Capitol, inspired by the President of the United States and carried out by his followers to prevent Congress from counting the votes for the presidency of those same United States, was reprehensible insurrection or needed, legitimate political discourse, we all can agree on nothing.
[...]
America is at a perilous crossroads. Who is it that we have become and what is it that America has become? Is this who we want to be and what we want America to be? And if not, just who is it that we Americans want to be? And just what is it that we want our America to be?
[...]
On the other hand, if we fail to learn the lessons that are there to be learned, or worse, deny even that there are lessons there to be learned, we will consign ourselves to another January 6 in the not-too-distant future, and another after that, and another after that. While for some, that is their wish, that cannot be our wish for America."
While Judge Luttig's statement is very powerful, I will take a moment to remind everyone that January 6th and the Republican coup attempt were only possible because of democracy in the first place. It is the very partisan nature of democracy itself which has divided Americans almost 50-50 into different factions. It is democracy itself which allowed for the narrative of a "rigged and stolen election". It was the democratically-elected state legislatures, the democratically-cast electoral votes, and democratically-elected Congress and Vice President which were at the core of Eastman's plan to overthrow the government.
If the president served for life (like Founding Fathers such as Alexander Hamilton argued in favor of), January 6th never could have happened. Without democracy, someone as insane and unqualified as Trump never would have been up for election in the first place, ffs.
The majority of the Republican Party voted to reject the lawful electoral votes on January 6th. It was not a handful of rogue individuals. It was a highly-coordinated effort that relied on elected members of Congress and elected members of state legislatures. If we never had political parties in the first place, the conspiracy could not have grown as large as it did.
The battle over the soul of America will persist as long as we have democratic factionalism poisoning our freedom and liberties.
"As in all things, the essence of our participation in democracy is not knowledge, but judgment -- studied, discerning judgment. No more so is this true than in the Constitution and in the Law.
[...]
Reeling from twin wars, leaderless, and rudderless, America is in need of help. Our polarized political leaders have shamefully and shamelessly failed us. They have summoned our worst demons at the very moment when we needed summoned our better angels.
[...]
But today our politicians live in a different world from the rest of us, and in a different world than that ordained by the Constitution. They live in a fictional world of divided loyalties between party and country, a world of their own unfaithful making."
I think the poor quality of judgment from voters, Republican politicians, and Democratic politicians speaks for itself. So, why do we allow unqualified demons to elect other unqualified demons to run our nation?
"As a consequence, America finds itself in desperate need of either a reawakening and quickening to the vision, truths, values, principles, beliefs, hopes, and dreams upon which the country was founded and that have made America the greatest nation in the world -- a revival of America and the American spirit.
Or, if it is to be, we are in need of a revival around a new vision, new truths, new values, new principles, new beliefs, new hopes and dreams that hopefully could once again bind our divided nation together into the more perfect union that “We the People” originally ordained and established it to be.
[...]
We cannot hobble along much longer, politically paralyzed and hopelessly divided, directionless and undecided as to which revival it will be -- if any at all.
Where do we begin? This is the easier question. Who has the patriotic and political courage to go first? This is the harder question."
Yes, we need a revival around a new vision. It starts here. We Dare to Dream for America and will not let the dream die.
The difficult truth is that the only way for freedom, liberty, and justice to endure is to replace democracy with a superior form a government. At no time in our nation's history has democracy ever been able to uphold the most basic liberty or justice. Slavery, ethnic cleansing of Native Americans, Jim Crow, colonialist wars, Trumpism...the list goes on and on.
We have been duped into thinking democracy is an unchangeable part of being American. But many early Americans such as Alexander Hamilton readily acknowledged that alternatives to democracy would likely be far better suited to upholding liberty and justice.
***
Luttig also gave a nearly-three-hour interview with PBS Frontline on May 25, 2022, which was easier to follow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9YrPe2Vr84
In the interview linked above, Luttig says the Constitution functioned perfectly throughout the Trump administration despite the pressure put on it. That seems a bit baffling for anyone who knows the definition of "functional" (or for anyone who noticed that courts ruled certain "Acting" executive branch officials were serving illegally, yet continued to occupy office), and speaks to how ideologically conservative Luttig is on Constitutional matters. In other words, it is something of high significance for someone as ideologically conservative as Luttig to be willing to go on the record about the severity of the coup attempt and the danger of future coup attempts.
Additionally, on April 27, 2022, Luttig published an article titled "The Republican blueprint to steal the 2024 election". Luttig warns that the only way to stop the Republican coup attempt in 2024 is for the Supreme Court to reject the "independent state legislature doctrine":
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/opinions/gop-blueprint-to-steal-the-2024-election-luttig/index.html
1:22 PM - Live testimony from Luttig. At 1:26 PM Luttig says, had Pence gone through with the plot, the US would have been plunged into a revolution over the most profound Constitutional Crisis the US has ever faced.
1:28 PM - Cheney refers to the Chesebro emails, which discusses the "alternate electors" plot. On December 13, 2020, Chesebro wrote to Rudy Guiliani with his memo outlining ideas to reject the official electoral votes and accept "alternate electors" instead.
1:29 PM - Regarding the Chesebro Memo, a federal judge concluded, "The draft memo pushed a strategy that knowingly violated the Electoral Count Act ..." "The memo is both intimately related to and clearly advanced the plan to obstruct the Joint Session of Congress on January 6, 2021." Days after the Chesebro Memo was transmitted, John Eastman continued developing the plot to obstruct the Joint Session with "dual slates" of "alternate electors".
1:30-1:31 PM - Excerpt from the Eastman Memos about the "alternate electors".
1:31 PM - Cheney mentions that Eastman knew the "alternate electors" did not have legal authority. On December 19, 2020 (days before Eastman transmitted his second memo), Eastman admitted in an email that the "alternate electors" had no legal significance.
1:32 PM - Judge Luttig testifies that there is no legal support for the "alternate electors". Luttig mentions that Eastman claimed there was both legal and historic precedent for utilizing "alternate electors", but that both claims are incorrect.
1:36 PM - John Wood (senior investigative counsel for the January 6th Committee) questions Luttig about the Eastman Memo's claim that Pence could unilaterally reject electoral votes. Wood mentions that both he and Eastman formerly served as law clerks for Judge Luttig.
Luttig mentions a tweet he posted on September 21, 2021, which briefly outlined his rationale for why Eastman's plot had no standing:
https://twitter.com/judgeluttig/status/1440523765285224456
1:44 PM - Wood asks Jacob about the process of researching the Vice President's role in counting electoral votes. Jacob found that there was no legal or historical reason to believe the Vice President had authority to object to or reject electoral votes. Jacob says Eastman told him that Vice President Gore in 2000 did not, and should not have had, the ability to declare himself the winner in the disputed election. (But Eastman wanted Pence to do so nevertheless).
1:50 PM - Testimonies from Trump administration legal advisors that they knew the Eastman Memo was illegal and that the Vice President didn't have authority to reject the election outcome.
Marc Short says Mark Meadows knew the Vice President didn't have the authority to reject the election outcome. Jason Miller and Eric Herschmann detail conversations with Eastman and others. They did not believe that the Vice President had the power to determine the election's outcome.
1:54 PM - Texts from Sean Hannity to Mark Meadows, where he was concerned the entire White House counsel's office could quit if Trump continued pressuring Pence.
1:55 PM - Testimony from Jared Kushner that he did not take seriously Pat Cipollone's threats to resign. Kushner also said, "my interest at that time is I'm trying to get as many pardons done." Yikes.
1:55 PM - Testimony from Eric Herschmann about the morning of January 6th. He had a conversation with Rudy Giuliani about Eastman's plan, and Giuliani conceded that it was likely the plan was not supportable.
1:57 PM - Video of Rudy Giuliani at Trump's January 6th rally, saying that everything planned is "perfectly legal". He introduces John Eastman and says his plan is legal and that the Vice President can reject electoral votes or send them back to state legislatures.
1:58 PM - Video of John Eastman at Trump's January 6th rally. He says he wants Pence to send the electoral votes back so the state legislatures can determine the final outcome.
1:59 PM - Jacob testifies that he had a 1.5-2 hour conversation with John Eastman on January 5th. Eastman acknowledged that not a single Supreme Court judge would support Eastman's legal arguments if the matter came before the court.
2:00 PM - A draft letter from October 2020 is shown. Eastman wrote comments on the draft saying that the Vice President cannot unilaterally reject electoral votes. In other words, he knew the legal arguments in his memo were incorrect.
2:00 PM - Luttig testifies. At 2:04 Luttig says the supposed historical precedent was the most critical role of Eastman's argument, not arguments based in law.
2:07 PM - Video of Al Gore saying it's a pretty easy choice not to overthrow the election.
2:08 PM - Jacob testifies that Eastman acknowledged Vice President Gore did not have the authority to overturn the election in 2000, and that he believed Vice President Harris should not have that authority in 2024.
2:09 PM - Testimony from Marc Short about receiving a phone call from former Republican Speaker of the House Paul Ryan. Ryan called to voice his view that Pence could not overturn the election.
2:11 PM - Video of Trump on January 4, 2021, saying he hopes Pence "comes through for us".
2:11 PM - Video of Marc Short, Rudy Giuliani, Steve Bannon, John Eastman, and Jason Miller about how all eyes were on Pence leading up to January 6th. Miller said on Fox News leading up to the election that he hoped Pence would "do the right thing" to ensure the election wasn't handed to "the Democrats and the people who cheated and stole their way through this election." Now Miller is trying to save himself by testifying to the Committee about how Trump and others knew the plots to overthrow the election were illegal...
2:13 PM - Trump retweeted a plot on December 23, 2020, about how Pence should refuse to certify the election. This is one of the earliest examples of Trump publicly pressuring Pence.
2:14 PM - Aguilar summarizes the times Trump pressured Pence over a "multi-week campaign".
2:15 PM - Jacob testifies about what Eastman said at a January 4th meeting (which included Trump, Pence, Eastman, and others). Eastman argued Pence had two options: he could reject electoral votes outright, or he could suspend the proceedings and declare a 10 day recess during which "disputed" state legislatures could change their electoral votes. Eastman favored the second option, as he believed it was more likely to be publicly accepted.
2:17 PM - Jacob testifies that Pence never wavered on his position. In the January 4th meeting, Jacob mentioned Eastman's plan would violate several provisions of the Electoral Count Act. Eastman acknowledged that his plan would indeed violate the Electoral Count Act, but he believed it didn't matter since the Electoral Count Act was supposedly Unconstitutional. Despite the courts customarily being the final arbiters of what is Unconstitutional, Eastman believed the the courts would decline to hear the matter and just let them get away with it.
The next morning, Jacob and Eastman discussed further about whether the Supreme Court would support the argument, and Eastman agreed not a single Supreme Court judge would support it.
2:19 PM - Video of Trump during a rally in Georgia on the evening of January 4, where he publicly pressured Pence despite knowing Pence did not want to overturn the election.
2:20 PM - Tweet from Trump on January 5, 2021, where Trump declared that the Vice President could throw out electoral votes.
2:21 PM - Jacob testifies further about the January 5th meeting with Eastman. At this meeting, the first thing Eastman requested is that Pence reject the electoral votes outright. (The previous day Eastman had argued this was a less favorable and more high-stakes route).
2:23 PM - Notes written by Jacob during the meeting with Eastman.
2:25 PM - Jacob testifies that Eastman acknowledged Vice President Jefferson did not have the authority to reject electoral votes, and therefore there was no historical precedent. Nevertheless, Eastman claimed Jefferson did at Trump's January 6th rally.
2:27 PM - Jacob says that Republican leaders in state legislatures put out statements saying they had no intention of reversing the outcome of the elections.
Eastman believed the courts would not get involved if Pence overturned the election. Jacob says he told Eastman that, if Pence had overturned the election and the courts did not get involved, this would mean the outcome of the election would be "decided in the streets".
2:30 PM - Jacobs had at least two other conversations with Eastman on January 5th. Eastman seems to have realized the resistance against rejecting outright, so he circled back to the plan of sending electoral votes back to the states.
2:34 PM - Aguilar reads a passage from the book "Peril" by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa, about a conversation where Trump privately pressured Pence.
2:35 PM - Testimony from Marc Short corroborating part of that conversation.
2:36 PM - On January 5th, Trump issued a statement falsely claiming that Pence agreed he could overturn the election.
2:37 PM - Testimony from Marc Short and Jason Miller about the statement that was issued.
2:40 PM - Marc Short talked with the head of Pence's Secret Security staff to inform him that Trump would "lash out" against Pence.
2:55 PM - Trump tweeted at Pence at 1:00 AM on January 6th pressuring Pence, and Trump sent another tweet around 8:00 AM.
2:57 PM - Testimony from Jacob. Trump called Pence on the morning of January 6th.
2:58 PM - Testimony from Eric Herschmann, Ivanka Trump, Nicholas Luna (assistant to Trump), General Keith Kellogg (National Security Advisor to Pence), and Julie Radford (Ivanka Trump's Chief of Staff) about the heated phone call.
3:01 PM - Aguilar mentions that the draft of Trump's January 6th rally speech did not include a mention of Pence, but Trump edited it to place pressure on him.
3:02 PM - Video of Trump's statements about Pence at the January 6th rally (which occurred after his heated phone call). Trump repeatedly insists that Pence needs to send the electoral votes back to the states.
3:03 PM - Aguilar states that testimony made clear that Pence was one of the primary targets of the Insurrectionists.
3:03 PM - Video of the Capitol being breached at 2:13 PM on January 6th.
3:04 PM - Aguilar states Mark Meadows had been notified about the violence at the Capitol by 2:00 PM, and likely earlier. Meadows quickly notified Trump. Despite this knowledge, Trump tweeted at 2:24 PM, which again pressured Pence.
3:05 PM - Video of Insurrectionists talking about how Pence "betrayed" Trump.
3:06 PM - Testimony from Ben Williamson (aide to Mark Meadows) and Sarah Matthews (White House Deputy Press Secretary). They testified that Meadows informed Trump about the violence before Trump issued his 2:24 PM tweet. They further state that they believed Trump needed to put out a statement about the violence, but were dismayed that Trump tweeted about Pence instead.
3:09 PM - Aguilar states that the investigation has revealed Trump's tweet significantly increased the intensity of the siege of the Capitol. Crowds both outside and inside of the Capitol grew, and Pence was escorted to a secure location.
Video about Pence's whereabouts in the Capitol and how the Insurrectionists came within 40 feet of Pence. By 2:24 PM, the Secret Service moved Pence to an office. Soon after, Trump released his tweet. Within a minute, Insurrectionists were on the floor below Pence. He was escorted downstairs to a secure location. During this time, he came within 40 feet of Insurrectionists.
3:12 PM - Aguilar states that Pence's life was indeed danger. An informant in the Proud Boys testified to the Department of Justice that the Proud Boys would have killed Pence, Pelosi, and other politicians if the Proud Boys came into contact with them.
3:13-3:14 PM - Never-before-seen photos of Pence sheltering from the Insurrectionists. Jacob testifies about how Pence refused to leave the Capitol.
3:16 PM - Marc Short testifies that Representative Kevin McCarthy had spoken with someone at the White House and was frustrated that they weren't taking the situation seriously.
3:17 PM - Email conversation between Jacob and Eastman. Eastman claims the Insurrection was Pence's fault for not following through with things.
3:18 PM - As part of this email conversation, Eastman told Jacob that Trump had been informed the plot had no legal backing, but Trump decided to go through with it anyway.
3:20 PM - Jacob testifies that Eastman asked once again if Pence could suspend the counting of electoral votes and send them back to the states. This email was sent on 11:44 PM on January 6th--after the Insurrection! Excerpt of the email is shown.
3:26 PM - Testimony from Eric Herschmann about receiving a call from Eastman on January 7th. Herschmann told Eastman he better get a good criminal defense lawyer.
3:27 PM - Eastman emailed Giuliani requesting to be on a list of pardons.
3:28 PM - John Eastman's deposition to the January 6th Committee.
3:29 PM - Aguilar reads several excerpts from the court case Eastman v. Thompson, written by Judge David Carter.
Page 36:
"Based on the evidence, the Court finds it more likely than not that President Trump corruptly attempted to obstruct the Joint Session of Congress on January 6, 2021."
Page 40:
"Based on the evidence, the Court finds that it is more likely than not that President Trump and Dr. Eastman dishonestly conspired to obstruct the Joint Session of Congress on January 6, 2021."
Page 44:
"Dr. Eastman and President Trump launched a campaign to overturn a democratic election, an action unprecedented in American history. Their campaign was not confined to the ivory tower--it was a coup in search of a legal theory."
3:31 PM - Aguilar reads an excerpt from Judge Luttig's written statement from earlier today:
"... the most reckless, insidious, and calamitous failures in both legal and political judgment in American history."
3:32 PM - Aguilar reads his closing statements. Trump was aware of the illegality of the plot to overthrow the election.
3:33 PM - Cheney makes closing statements, summarizing today's hearing and the topic of an upcoming hearing (pressure on state legislatures).
3:37 PM - Thompson reads an excerpt from Judge Luttig's op-ed about the in-progress 2024 coup attempt and allows him to give further thoughts.
"I have written, as you said, Chairman Thompson, that today, almost two years after that fateful day in January 2021, that still, Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present danger to American democracy. That's not because of what happened on January 6th. It's because, to this very day, the former President, his allies, and supporters pledge that in the presidential election of 2024, if the former president or his anointed successor as the Republican Party presidential candidate were to lose that election, that they would attempt to overturn that 2024 election in the same way that they attempted to overturn the 2020 election, but succeed in 2024 where they failed in 2020.
I don't speak those words lightly. I would have never spoken those words ever in my life, except that that's what the former president and his allies are telling us. As I said in that New York Times op-ed, wherein I was speaking about the Electoral Count Act of 1887, the former president and his allies are executing that blueprint for 2024 in open and plain view of the American public. I repeat, I would have never uttered one single one of those words, unless the former president and his allies were candidly and proudly speaking those exact words to America."
3:45 PM - Committee adjourned.
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As always, we must warn that the danger is not over until every last organizer of the coup attempt and every single coup participant in Congress is put in prison. Judge Luttig has echoed this same sentiment.
In the year and a half since the Insurrection, the Republican Party and other far-right terrorists have constantly warned us that they are in the process of organizing another coup--one which will be far more bloody than the last.
All non-treasonous Americans need to (legally) arm ourselves so we can prepare to defend ourselves in the scenario that the Republican Party follows through on the bloodshed it has continuously been promising. Until every last one of them is put in prison, we are not safe.
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